Casgliadau Arlein
Amgueddfa Cymru
Chwilio Uwch
Recordiad sain / Audio recording: Anna Schiavo
Oral history recording with Anna Schiavo. Recorded as part of the Italian Memories in Wales project (2008-10), delivered by ACLI-ENAIP and funded by the National Lottery Heritage Fund.
SchiavoAnna-au-01 00.01 Interviewer asks Anna when and where she was born. She was born in 1960 in Palermo, where she lived for two years. She explains how her father moved to Cardiff first to set up home, and a year after, Anna came over with her mother, brothers and sister and her grandmother. She talks about moving and why her father chose Wales. They had family friend in Wales who told him about opportunities available there, as work was difficult to find in Sicily. Interviewer asks about the work he did over here. She describes his work in the catering business. Interviewer asks about journey over here. Anna says that it was long and difficult. She talks about her mother as a dynamic woman, who had lived in Africa, and who was enthusiastic about the journey which she goes on to describe.
04.05 Interviewer asks Anna to describe her grandmother. Anna talks about her family, where they are from. Her grandfather moved to America and her grandmother, pregnant with Anna’s father, was supposed to follow but didn’t, listening to advice from her family in Sicily. They now have family over in Baltimore, America. She talks about this situation and the feelings surrounding it. Because Anna’s father was so important to her grandmother, she followed the family to the UK. She talks of her mother meeting people through her work. She goes on to talk about her mother’s work in Italy as a dressmaking teacher and with ACLI, working in restaurants in Cardiff. It was a difficult change for her but she got on with it, and learned the language slowly. She recounts a story about difficulties her mother had with English people. Her mother always worked and went to English classes whilst her grandmother looked after the children.
08.06 Anna talks about her grandmother and their upbringing. They would speak Italian at home. She recalls it being difficult when they started school, but also talks about the adaptability of children. She talks about speaking Italian at home, but starting to speak in English with her siblings at a certain age. She considers her bilingual upbringing as very positive, and explains that her niece wished to teach Italian. She talks about her niece, her siblings and their relation to their Italian heritage. Interviewer asks if Anna would mix with Italian people when she was growing up. She says yes and goes on to explain and describe the social activities they would organise. She talks about a scheme where the Italian government would fund children of Italian immigrants to return to Italy on holiday. Anna’s mother would accompany the children. She describes the journey to Italy. She describes the trips in detail- who went, where they would stay, and what they would do. There were Italian emigrants who had moved to France and Germany and she explains the relationship with those children and the language they would use. The interviewer asks how she got on with the nuns and priests they stayed with and Anna describes this relationship.
17.07 Interviewer asks about the role of the church when they were growing up. She says yes, it was very prominent and continues to talk about religion. Anna talks about her mother, who brought religion and discipline into the household. The interviewer asks about how she brought Italian culture into the house. The family went on annual holidays to Italy, spoke Italian and had family get togethers. When asked if she liked the Italian side of her culture when growing up she talks about not wanting to be considered different at a young age. She also talks about feeling more Italian/Welsh at various moments and periods in her life. She describes how her family feel- her brothers feeling more Italian than her and her sister. She talks about her brother who did military service in Italy.
24.25 Interviewer asks how often they went back to Sicily to visit. She talks about their holidays, the journey, how they felt about going. Anna describes their apartment in Sicily and the family they would visit, talking about language difficulties. Anna talks about feeling shy with their Italian cousins, who could speak better Italian. She says that now she can understand how her nieces and nephews feel. She talks more about Italian language and mentions Welsh language, which they had the opportunity to learn at school but didn’t continue. The interviewer asks how her nephews and nieces learn Italian and if they like the Italian side of their culture. Anna talks about this- they go to Italian school and some visit Italy regularly. She talks about the Italian community in Cardiff, and how older generations are dying and younger generations might not be as in touch with their Italian Heritage.
30.42 Interviewer asks about any festivals they would celebrate within the Italian community. Anna describes celebrating ‘Festival of our Lady’ in Wales, and dressing in traditional dress for dinner dances with the Italian consul. In Sicily she remembers celebrating Santa Rosalia, the patron saint of Sicily. She talks about Christmas and Easter, and the cakes her father would bake and the Italian food. When asked about particular aspects of the Italian culture she enjoyed Anna talks about Italy as laid back, and about the pub culture in Great Britain. When asked about differences between Italy and Wales she talks about not being able to find work without contacts. She also talks in detail about many Italian children living with their parents until an older age and the pros and cons of that.
36.59 When asked about being a woman in Sicily she considers the modern Sicilian society as quite equal. The interviewer asks about Anna’s mother, and whether it was common for women to work then. Anna talks about her mother’s life in detail, how she lived in Africa. Anna explains how her mother’s upbringing contributed to her strong personality which helped her survive in Wales. She talks of some people who moved back to Italy, and the problems they faced. Anna talks about Italian communities forming in Great Britain by setting up fish and chip shops, cafes and restaurants. She mentions specific cafes or restaurants they used to go to. She also talks about the cake shop their family opened together.
49.34 Interviewer asks about Anna’s current job. She is a shipping manager for a tea company, and occasionally uses her Italian language. When asked if she would move back to Italy she sees it as unlikely and explains why. She talks about the difficulty setting up in Sicily, and having to pay protection money to organisations, similar to the mafia. She talks about the problems finding employment in Sicily. She compares Italian government systems to British system. When asked if any of her family would move back she responds that her parents and brothers might and explains why, she also recognises why they haven’t returned.
55.04 Interviewer asks how Anna’s nephews and nieces see themselves. Anna talks about this and compares her sisters and brothers children and how they relate to their Italian heritage. She says if she had children that they would be brought up bilingual. She says they haven’t had many difficulties at school, often because there are so many nationalities mixed in schools nowadays. Interviewer asks if Anna has anything she wishes to add. She talks about her upbringing and the advantage of being involved with the Italian community through her mother. She talks about pride in her Italian roots. She explores in detail questions of nationality, identity and moments when she feels more Italian and more British. Anna appreciates that Britain has provided a lot for her. She also talks about her family always having worked hard and the contributions that many Italians make to Britain.
62.12 Anna recounts that the family were going to emigrate to Baltimore, America to join her father’s family, but missed out due to failing the points system. She continues to talk about her parents possibly moving back to Italy. Anna then talks about her father’s family. She explains why her grandfather left her grandmother, whilst she was pregnant with Anna’s father, to move to America. Their plan had been to join him but her family persuaded her not to. She talks about her father never having met his father. He met his uncle, who is a writer and writes books about the Italian community in New York. They are now in contact with her father’s step sisters and have visited them, as they have travelled to Britain and Italy. She goes on to talk about that side of the family and explains how they got back into contact with these relatives and their feelings after being reunited. She talks at length about travelling back to Castelmare del Golfo in Sicily with these relatives.
73.19 Interviewer asks if this has changed her American relatives. Anna talks about the Italian influences in that family and how they consider themselves. Her grandfather had brought Italian cakes, food and coffee into the house in downtown Baltimore, which was home to many immigrants. She talks about the feelings of sadness about the secrets in the family. She talks about their feeling of national identity. When asked if she wishes to add anything else Anna says that her mother has been a fantastic role model and has sacrificed a lot for Italy, and promoting Italian culture for the love of Italy. She continues to talk about her mother and her mother and father’s relationship. She explains why they moved to Wales, and how her mother was adamant to back up her husband. She describes her as determined woman, very patriotic towards Italy.
80.42 Interviewer asks Anna how her parents met. They met as children and grew up together. Her mother didn’t marry until her thirties which was very late, and at that point was encouraged to marry Anna’s father. Whilst in Africa her Anna’s mother had many admirers, but her uncle would never agree to them, Anna recalls stories her mother had told her about this. Interviewer asks about difficulties they had moving over here and preparations they had to make. Anna talks about this, about contracts and sponsorship. Their father would send money back to Sicily, but Anna explains that her mother was very economical and explains how- by making clothes, putting money aside for bills, food and saving.
89.45 Interviewer asks if they have any property in Italy. Anna responds that they have an apartment and used to have a summer house there. She recounts a story about the Italian government taking the house back from them after they had bought, paying them only a small fee. Interviewer asks if any of the family have gone to Ethiopia to visit. Her mother would like to go back but it’s too unsafe, although she does donate money to a catholic association in Ethiopia. Anna talks about the Italian community in Ethiopia, how the community would meet and keep the Italian culture alive.
95.21 Interviewer asks about the books that Anna’s father’s uncle wrote on Italian communities. She explains that they were written about Italians in America, and Castelmare in Sicily. This uncle would go back to Sicily for work and try to persuade Anna’s father to move to America. Anna’s grandmother didn’t want to let him go, and his father never came back to visit as it was more difficult in those times.