Casgliadau Arlein
Amgueddfa Cymru
Chwilio Uwch
Recordiad sain / Audio recording: Angela Di Maio
Oral history recording with Angela Di Maio. Recorded as part of the Italian Memories in Wales project (2008-10), delivered by ACLI-ENAIP and funded by the National Lottery Heritage Fund.
00:00:01 Angela continues to talk about work on the farm. Her brothers were called up to serve in the war, and lack of young employees, due to the war, meant that Angela and her sister had to work and supervise the other employees. She states that on 8th September, the Italian army broke up and many soldiers didn’t want to fight, and would try to return home. Many young soldiers passed their farm and Angela’s father would give them bread and clothing if they needed it.
00:04:40 She returns to talking about before September when they had to work hard on the farm, without many Italian young people to carry out the work. In the spring, authorities came and made the family house a Polish man accused of being a spy. Although they first weren’t enthusiastic, Simone, the Polish man, brought his Polish friends to help out with the work. She talks about the hours they worked, escorting them back to the caserma where they slept, and her father compensating them for work even though they could not be paid in money. They formed a relationship with the family and kept in touch through letters when they returned home.
00:09:46 They then moved to a smaller farm. Her brother Giovanni was in France and had to walk from France to Betola, their home. Angela recalls how she saw someone hiding in the bushes who was, in fact her brother, hiding for fear of being caught by German soldiers. Interviewer asks about presence of German soldiers. Angela talks about German soldiers and Italian fascist groups. Her other brother, Domenico, travelled from Rome to Piacenza when the Italian army broke up, but was caught there by German soldiers who took him back. She recalls that it was a hard time, perhaps easier for them as they were younger. She talks about the partisans who would hide at the farm. If German or Fascist soldiers found out that they were hiding the family would be in great trouble. They were also armed and would give the family no choice but to hide them in an unused house on the farm. She remembers how they wrote partigiani on the wall when they left. The family, even Angela as a young child, were then questioned by German and Fascist soldiers about hiding the groups.
00:16:36 It was a very difficult time when the war broke up. Going out of town to the church they would often see people hanged for having hidden partisans. She recognises that partisan ideal may have been good, but that many civilians suffered because of it. She remembers a time when German soldiers killed 21 civilians in a nearby town- women and men from the town, because partisan soldiers killed one German and one horse. Reflecting on this she wonders whether, if the partisans hadn’t acted as they did, less civilians would have died.
00:19:42 In 1948 many people moved away to Switzerland, America and Britain. She recalls her parents’ reactions to her desire to move away. At that time she was working the fields, in a local Osteria at weekends, and as a nanny. She recalls how she was never without work. Interviewer asks about farm work. She talks about crops and working with the ox and cart. Interviewer asks about where they would get food. Most would be from the farm. She describes Easter Monday- going out to collect small lettuces as a tradition. They would generally buy meat. She recognises that those living in the city it may have been more difficult, that they couldn’t sell them food, as there were penalties. The food they grew was monitored and a certain amount was given to the government for Consorsio, to be distributed to those in the city. She recounts a story about the Polish lodgers hid some of their wheat whilst they were being inspected. As a result, the family had enough to make bread for the soldiers returning from the war.
00:32:37 Interviewer asks about the church and religious festivals. They would celebrate festivals with the family. On Easter Monday many went for walks and picnics in the mountain, again she talks about grugnali, the lettuces that they would pick. Interviewer asks about traditions and social life. Angela talks about Santa Franca. People from the area would walk for hours with a picnic to visit this Saint, and other Saints, in the mountains. As much of a religious festival it was a way to socialise, as with other religious activities.
00:36:51 For entertainment Angela, her sister and friends would practise and perform plays, always in the day as no light was allowed at night. She talks about the planes that would monitor light. Her cousins were killed by the spezzoni, shrapnel, dropped from the planes, when they were attending a feast. They still tried to enjoy their childhood. She talks about the plays they performed, sometimes being interrupted by planes passing through. They would then be called from parish to parish to perform the plays. Angela talks about everyone leaving in 1948 and she too wanted to go. The interviewer asks why she chose to move to Wales. Angela responds that it wasn’t through poverty or lack of jobs but just that everyone was going abroad. They had Italian contacts in Wales who started to sort out Angela’s papers to come over. She talks about preparations for moving and various contacts. The contacts she had failed to meet her at Milan station so she left alone. She describes it as the only time she has seen her father cry. She recalls the journey with other young people from Italy, France and England, and where she eventually found her contact and they travelled to London, then Wales. After one week in Ogma Vale, her boss came to collect her to take her to Neath. She tells a story about her first meeting with her boss- that she would return home if the boss wasn’t satisfied with her work, but also if Angela wasn’t satisfied with her boss. Only in the third year she went back to Italy for a long holiday. It was cut short, however, when she found out that someone in the family she was working for was ill. She talks of first impressions arriving in London, and why she felt at home in Wales. She very much felt like part of a family over here and explains why, talking about the family, the work she carried out for them.
00:59.41 Interviewer asks Angela to talk about any preparations she had to make before she came over to Wales. She has trouble remembering but says no. She had to have a certificate signed by the town Commune which her father also had to sign. She talks about the law that stated that immigrants should work in the same job for four years- however, Angela changed from housework to working in the cafe. She would pretend to work in the house when the police came round to check. She talks about people who came into the cafe where she worked, what they would buy and difficulties she would have giving change with English money, making light hearted jokes with a particular customer who, in the end, taught her how to count English money. She met many people through work in the cafe and then went to work in the restaurant which the family also owned. She describes her hours, the type of work and the people she worked with. When she was married she opened her own cafe.
01:07:07 The interviewer asks Angela to describe the cafe she worked in. Angela describes where it was, what it sold, including home-made ice cream, sweets, cigarettes, sandwiches, tea and coffee. She talks about opening hours- they were open every day apart from Thursday. They worked on Sundays. Interviewer asks about social life in Neath. Angela talks about evening sewing classes. Though she couldn’t speak the language she met friends there. She talks about people accompanying her home on dark nights and says the kindness of people was one of the reasons that she stayed. Interviewer asks if they were of Italian background. They were mostly Welsh, but Angela met people from both countries and didn’t consider them differently.
01:14:49 Interviewer asks how she found learning the language. She found that people used to like to teach her English, often laughing but never in spite. She recounts an amusing story about confusion she had when working in the shop. One family were interested in opera and would invite Angela to their house to listen to it. She found that people were good to her. When asked if people liked her Italian ‘ness’ she talks about one man questioning her about her religion in a negative way. She recalls a time when many Italians died in a fight over a football match, and being taunted about it by a young boy. She talks about how she met her husband Peter, who is also Italian, at an Italian dance in Neath. They were married in Neath, she describes her wedding and remembers her husband who died of a stroke two years ago, and the cafe they opened together.
01:29:24 Interviewer asks if they ever went back to Italy. They went back to North and South Italy to visit their families. They also took her husband back to North Italy twice, after he had the stroke. The second time he didn’t want to go back to see his family in the south, she thinks because he didn’t want to be seen in a wheelchair. She remembers her husband. After his death she has been to Italy two times to see family. Interviewer asks how she feels when she goes back. Angela enjoys going to Italy but always wants to return to Wales- which she considers home- to the surprise of her relatives there.
01:33:21 Interviewer asks if she still sees herself as Italian. She finds it difficult to answer this question. She will never deny her nationality or her religion, and doesn’t like to hear people talking badly about Italian people. She considers there to be good and bad Italian and Welsh people, and also doesn’t like to hear negative generalisations about British people.
01:35:35 Interviewer asks if there are any specific aspects of Italian culture that may have had a positive influence on her life in Wales. She responds that years ago things would have been more different- but now the countries are less different and you can find many of the same things in each country. She recognises the family as more united than in Britain. She talks about a holiday in Sorra, South Italy where her husband is from, where the whole family would go out together. She talks about how they feel safer about with their children as they are often surrounded by family. Although she states that it has changed somewhat now- there more outsiders so they don’t feel as safe. She talks about how she used to feel safer in Wales.
01:45:34 She asks the interviewer if she has ever been to Italy and then goes on to describe in detail Montecassino, Frosinone, near where her husband was from. She talks about his family during the war. She says that the war was different for them as they lived in a big city. Angela talks about people not understanding why they didn’t go back to live, and that they didn’t give it a thought. The interviewer asks if many people went back to Italy. Angela talks about the cafe they bought in Ogma Valley and says that many people did go back to Italy when they retired. Interviewer asks about their cafe, interviewee gets up to find photographs of cafe and recording is stopped.